My 3200 GT hard to start

[Alecci]

Greetings to the board,

One problem after another these days it seems. The day before yesterday I filled the car up with a full tank of fuel (don't know if it's relevant other than that's when the problem started) and from that point on it has been a pain in the **** to get it started.

I've seen similar threads on here, where the battery is fresh, the starter turns over just like it ought to, but the engine simply will not start.

I have checked for error codes, there are non present. Here's the funny thing though, if I let the diagnostic cycle complete before trying to start, there's no chance it'll start, no matter how many attempts of trying to lock and unlock the doors (in attempt to wake up the immobilizer). If I don't let it complete the diagnostic check on start-up, but instead try to start it immediately, it will start 8 times our of 10, but the code key check light will lit.

For the first few seconds the engine will idle somewhat unstable and rock the car from side to side, but then it settles to its usual pace.

When it starts, it drives perfectly - when it doesn't start, well of course it doesn't drive at all.

I don't know where to start troubleshooting as there's no error codes to go by. I've seen others report a hint at a scent of fuel or white smoke coming out of the exhaust pipes, but none of that's present here. It has always started on the first attempt prior to my filling it up full the other day, both before and after I replaced the knock sensor (there's another thread on this board about that). I truly beats me why from one minute to the next, it would start to behave like this.

As always, all and any help are more than welcome!

 

[MUC3200GT]

What about the Batterie?, the batterie is maybe still be strong enough to turn the starter, but voltage during starter cycle is too low to operate the ECU, maybe waiting for the diagnostic cycle to complete just drains the batterie too low.

 

[Alecci]

What about the Batterie?, the batterie is maybe still be strong enough to turn the starter, but voltage during starter cycle is too low to operate the ECU, maybe waiting for the diagnostic cycle to complete just drains the batterie too low.

I've tried using a power starter (or whatever they're called in English, I'm not sure) for assistance as well, but it neither improves nor worsens the problem. I'm far from a professional mechanic, but I've dealt with my fair share of car-related problems in the past and this just doesn't seem to have anything to do with the battery.

 

[CatmanV2]

Isn't this classic symptom of the cam sensor on these? Something is niggling that I've read here before.

C

 

[Rex B]

Hi

If the code light is still alight at the end of the cycle have you to 1/ tried a different key or 2/ tried using the emergency procedure on page 6 of the handbook.

Rex B
Manual 3200

 

[alfatwo]

Back to basics then......Its either no fuel or no spark or both...pull a fuel line and check for pressure,It'll give you a clue
Plus all eight spark plugs won't have failed at once..

Dave

 

[EVOeng]

What is the condition of your throttle body?

 

[Fat Arnie]

My 3200 car had this exact problem. Only happened after the engine had already run and I tried to restart within 30 secs of switching off.

Turn the ignition right off. Wait 40 secs, start as normal. If all is OK you have the symptom my car (now Lee's car) has. I spent a year trying to figure it out. Gave up and learned not to stall it.

 

[EVOeng]

I don't suppose there was a very slight buzzing noise for about 40 seconds before you restarted the car Arnie?

 

[beau]

unplug and replug in the crank sensor and give the wire a wiggle where it enters the sensor

 

[Alecci]

Hi

If the code light is still alight at the end of the cycle have you to 1/ tried a different key or 2/ tried using the emergency procedure on page 6 of the handbook.

Rex B
Manual 3200

Hi mate,

The code light is not lit after the end of the cycle, but if I do wait until the end of the cycle the car will not start. It will only start if I try to before the end of the cycle, and in those cases only does the code light stay lit.

Back to basics then......Its either no fuel or no spark or both...pull a fuel line and check for pressure,It'll give you a clue
Plus all eight spark plugs won't have failed at once..

Dave

I'll pull a fuel line to see what happens, even though I doubt the lack of fuel is the culprit. Seems odd that the car would start if I don't let it complete the diagnosis cycle, but will not start when the cycle is completed.

What is the condition of your throttle body?

Took a look at it when I had the intake removed for replacing the knock sensor. It seemed fine, all nice and clean and the butterfly moved very freely. Other than this I don't know how much I else I can check it up.

My 3200 car had this exact problem. Only happened after the engine had already run and I tried to restart within 30 secs of switching off.

Turn the ignition right off. Wait 40 secs, start as normal. If all is OK you have the symptom my car (now Lee's car) has. I spent a year trying to figure it out. Gave up and learned not to stall it.

It doesn't matter whether I wait one second or ten minutes between trying to start it, and hot or cold engine makes no difference at all. It seems to be all dependant whether the diagnosis cycle is completed or not, but no error codes are thrown if I let the cycle be completed. If I don't let it complete, the code light is lit - but only that light, no other.

 

[ledlights]

I have had starting issues with a low battery voltage - just before I had to replace it. The car would start but the key light would come on.

I've read somewhere that the induction loop connector sometimes gets dirty around the ignition/steering wheel and this can cause problems but as for your symptoms, I can't think of anything else that is directly related.

Hope you find it soon.

Steve

 

[swmillar]

if it's a hot start problem.... i had this. turned out to be the water temp sender connection at the front of the block, just to the right of the solenoid boost controller. the connector had become a little corroded and removing/reinserting fixed it until i pulled it apart and properly cleaned it.

 

[Alecci]

OK, here's an update... Or sort of at least.

I've tried plugging and unplugging the crank sensor (same as TDC sensor I presume?), also cleaning all the connectors I could get to. No difference.

Changed the battery for a new and fresh one. No difference.

I have yet to pull a fuel line to check for pressure, will do in order to rule it out but it seems far-fetched based on the symptoms.

So, here's a recap of what the deal is:

1: If I turn the key to MAR position, and let the diagnostic cycle complete, car will not start no matter how long I keep the starter running, how many times I try or how long I wait in between. No error lights at all are lit.

2: If I turn the key directly from inserting it to START and thus skip the diagnostic cycle, the car will always start on first attempt and within 1-2 seconds, but the key code light will lit - no other lights though - and the engine will not run properly for the first 2-4 seconds.

3: It makes no difference whatsoever whether the engine is hot or cold, the symptoms are exactly the same.

4: Once started, the car runs excellent except for the 2-4 seconds just after starting. Drives as it should both on low revs and at WOT and everything in between.

5: I've check for leakages of oil and/or coolant but have been unable to find any. No weird smells, for example from petrol or burnt oil, and no black, white or blue smoke from the exhaust. No unfamiliar sounds or noises.

6: Symptoms started suddenly after filling up gas. No problems whatsoever prior to that, but started immediately after when I was to drive away from the pump.

I'm basically at my wit's end about this. Closest Maserati specialist is about 300 km's from me and they're not cheap, or how does about £500 for change of oil and filter sound?

As always, all and any help would be very much appreciated. Sorry about my English, I'm a bit frustrated and not very well versed in all the proper terms to use here...

 

[ledlights]

Hi Alex,

Firstly, your English is excellent, so no need for an apology.

Okay, my first thought is that it might be something to do with the RFID keycode anti-theft system, as the light stays on. Do you have a spare key to try? Could you take the cover off around the steering column and clean up the connector to the induction loop (and upstream toward the alarm/ecu)? Worth a try...

Also, do you have any error codes?

I'll have a think to see if anything else occurs to me.

Regards,

Steve

 

[conaero]

Is it worth dropping the fuel and putting fresh in?

Also, if you have not error lights, unplug the MAF, its worth a try.

 

[ledlights]

Alex,

Another thought - have you checked for a spark when you try to start it after the diagnostics have finished and also before? If there's no spark after but there is before it could lead you to a further investigation of the anti-theft system....

Steve

 

[Alecci]

When starting the car up to go home from work today I finally got an error code:

"P0220, Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch B Circuit Malfunction
Test inhibited, fault stored, validated present, validated cycle"

Guess I'm on the look-out for a contactless pedal pot now then...

Could this be the reason for the symptoms I've experienced? Seems a bit far-fetched, but then again, with Italian cars you never know...

 

[ledlights]

I don't know if you've seen this:

http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/sho...EDAL-potentiometer!!!!?highlight=forget+pedal

but you might be able to repair your existing pot. Connecting the two pot channels seems to work as well. The only thing is that I would have thought you'd have seen a CEL before if this was to blame for your starting fault. Did you investigate the RFID induction loop?

Regards,

Steve

 

[Alecci]

Time for a small update...

I fitted the new contactless PP, but the CEL stays lit. I ran a new diagnose and came up with the following DTCs:

P0225, Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch C Circuit Malfunction
0x1225, item not found in list
P0331, Knock Sensor 2 Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 2)

Guess I'll need a contactless TB and a new knock sensor as well... Any hints on what the second error code could be?