15years and then it’s leccy only!

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,803
A MK1 Golf is 790-970kg whereas a MK8 Golf is circa 1450kg. That's progress for you. No wonder our roads are screwed.
Have a crash in a Mk1, then a similar crash in a mk8 and you’ll appreciate the progress! Though better still, of course, is not to crash at all.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,172
Have a crash in a Mk1, then a similar crash in a mk8 and you’ll appreciate the progress! Though better still, of course, is not to crash at all.
Agreed but we should have a MK8 Golf that is the same weight or lighter with the same or more strength.

The materials exist but we are just building cheaper disposable short life vehicles. If we built a more expensive lighter/stronger vehicle it would last much longer. Many cars we built in the 70's still exist and they were rubbish. Why can't we build a car that lasts 50 years now?
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,172
My Chimaera is 1060kg built in a fancy shed by tiny car company with fairly low tech build process. Granted I wouldn't want to have a crash in one.....oh.....

You get my point. Make some simple light cars that weigh max 1000kg.

A new Alpine A110 is only circa 1100kg so we can do it. I'm not sure a near 3 tonne Model X with over half a tonne of batteries is a smart answer. Is that really the best we can do?
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
It’s certainly a possibility but far from cut and dried. Hydrogen is very abundant but it’s usually very strongly attached to another element which makes it expensive to produce and then it needs distributing. A BEV with a FC range extender? I can see that.
I've been following the developments on Hydrogen technology very closely over the last year or so and evidently a group of Australian scientists have now found a way of generating hydrogen very cheaply using iron (the most abundant element on earth) as the catalyst rather than the significantly more expensive Platinum. So the costs to produce Hydrogen are now becoming much more comparable with those costs associated with petrol production, which could become the major game changer and massively accelerate the adoption of hydrogen as the primary replacement fuel for petrol and diesel vehicles over the next 5-8 years. This could certainly be the case for long distance trucks, buses and coaches. In fact China is now reducing subsidies on its Lithium battery technology development and channeling most of their energy generation resources towards Hydrogen in a big way. Stocks in Hydrogen technology companies are now increasing rapidly so if you have some spare cash, take a look at this sector.

In reality the future will probably be a mix of both BEV's and FCEV's....but cutting all dependency on petrol and diesel. So interesting and exciting times ahead!.
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
Better get building all those nuclear plants to keep up with demand and surround us with windmills as a back up
UK Govt are already in discussions with Rolls Royce about building s series of mini nuclear generation plants around the UK which are much smaller, cheaper and quicker to build than the more complex nuclear power stations, as part of our future power generation reqmts. The technology is already there to do this so expect to see nuclear power generation at the heart of any future power generation strategy.
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
Radical possibly......how about we find a way to turn the existing emissions into zero somehow. So we we leave all the cars on the road as they are but have some DPF style unit that absorbs/captures all gases. The we have some unit somewhere that we can exchange them for a clean one while the full/dirty ones are expelled into some hermetically sealed massive dome in the country somewhere full of something that converts it to nothing.

Obviously I am no chemical or science professor! It seems we are creating solutions that are massive shifts with massive costs, continual ongoing maintenance/running costs. While still producing more new cars that likely cost more in energy/resources to build than they may consume in their lifetime possibly. Sometimes the answer can be a little simpler albeit crude. Stop the gases actually hitting the atmosphere in the first place at source.

It would be interesting to know how much emissions/resources a car is responsible for to build it compared to what it emits in its lifetime. Bearing in mind it seems the lifetime of a car is getting forever short than cars built many moons ago.

I like many don't see how full EV's are the answer. I already can hardly ever charge my PHEV in London with very few on the road in comparison to how many there will be if idiots BJ gets his way. How the heck am I going to charge it when the masses buy it EV's?

It is a multi faceted solution. Stop building so many new cars, cut unnecessary journeys, organise/design cities with good public transport links but also in a way that journey's can be reduced. Stop shipping half the world to the other side of the world and back again. Unless we start doing other things like this then even 100% of us into EV's won't make a dent. The electricity still has to come from somewhere.
Nuclear...it's coming to your neighbourhood soon!. The good news is they wouldnt be any bigger than a typical waste incinerator plant. I've seen the pictures from Rolls Royce and they look like big shiny armadillos.
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,829
Recall the concept Fiat Panda was designed with a small battery, but you would be able to add more battery via your Fiat dealer should you want to go on a long trip, holiday etc.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
UK Govt are already in discussions with Rolls Royce about building s series of mini nuclear generation plants around the UK which are much smaller, cheaper and quicker to build than the more complex nuclear power stations, as part of our future power generation reqmts. The technology is already there to do this so expect to see nuclear power generation at the heart of any future power generation strategy.
Pebble reactors, it's the future....
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,232
I've been following the developments on Hydrogen technology very closely over the last year or so and evidently a group of Australian scientists have now found a way of generating hydrogen very cheaply using iron (the most abundant element on earth) as the catalyst rather than the significantly more expensive Platinum. So the costs to produce Hydrogen are now becoming much more comparable with those costs associated with petrol production, which could become the major game changer and massively accelerate the adoption of hydrogen as the primary replacement fuel for petrol and diesel vehicles over the next 5-8 years. This could certainly be the case for long distance trucks, buses and coaches. In fact China is now reducing subsidies on its Lithium battery technology development and channeling most of their energy generation resources towards Hydrogen in a big way. Stocks in Hydrogen technology companies are now increasing rapidly so if you have some spare cash, take a look at this sector.

In reality the future will probably be a mix of both BEV's and FCEV's....but cutting all dependency on petrol and diesel. So interesting and exciting times ahead!.

I’ve had a look, that is very interesting! The prospect of a container ship that makes its own fuel from the ocean it’s sailing in is quite a thought.
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
As there been any heavy crashes logged involving normal leccy cars, do they catch fire when the battery's short out!

Dave
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
As there been any heavy crashes logged involving normal leccy cars, do they catch fire when the battery's short out!

Dave
Yes, Teslas are well known for this and apparently fire crews are required to wear special suiting/follow set procedures for their protection. They're very difficult to extinguish and have a tendency to re-ignite if not left to burn out
 
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alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
Yes, Teslas are well known for this and apparently fire crews are required to wear special suiting/follow set procedures for their protection. They're very difficult to extinguish and have a tendency to re-ignite if not left to burn out
So insurance is going to be very expensive then!

Dave
 

allandwf

Member
Messages
10,987
UK Govt are already in discussions with Rolls Royce about building s series of mini nuclear generation plants around the UK which are much smaller, cheaper and quicker to build than the more complex nuclear power stations, as part of our future power generation reqmts. The technology is already there to do this so expect to see nuclear power generation at the heart of any future power generation strategy.
Still working on heat and steam generation? That's the bit we need to change.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Still working on heat and steam generation? That's the bit we need to change.
When I was working at a 'nuclear power station' - secret, made stuff for MoD, me and my mate, the Chief Reactor Physicist talked about this, and the reactor in Nuclear sub is about as big as an old dustbin ie not wheelie bin, though that does work, just didn't exist then, pretty small, but a sub is pretty big, so we worked out a car one would only need be the size of a teacup, or a man-sized mug for a Maser, but the issue was you can't miniaturise fission (or is it fusion?) it doesn't scale down much like you couldn't make a 1/72nd scale internal combustion engine work.

This was years ago though - who knows what's happened since....
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,172
Interesting article but there must be massive multiple variables.


A massive exec vehicle such as a QP must take much more to build and the MPG is much lower so the variables are lower. Why they worked on 15k miles per year I don't know as that isn't the average.

There are also so many hidden variables that have likely not been calculated. Less or no new cars would need so much advertising, marketing and all sorts. How many adverts, brochures and lots of things you wouldn't think of or calculate would no longer be needed. All have an impact.

An accurate study is difficult but not sure they have this one fully completed correctly.

Mileage completed obviously makes a massive difference.
 

Needamaser

Member
Messages
1,499
Yes, Teslas are well known for this and apparently fire crews are required to wear special suiting/follow set procedures for their protection. They're very difficult to extinguish and have a tendency to re-ignite if not left to burn out
Apparently all the services are trained as to what they can and cant do in event of attending an accident involving an EV. They carry a plastic shepherds crook in case a colleague is electrocuted and they can pull them away from the car. Mechanics servicing an EV need to wear protective gear. (Masks, suits and rubber boots) I am told there were several fatalities last year in the UK with mechanics not waiting long enough after disconnecting the battery before they touched the car. I think Jaguar say they must wait 11 minutes from disconnecting the battery. Some garages are now refusing to work on an EV.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,747
Something I wrote to market an issue a year ago that seems ever more appropriate as time goes on. Life’s too short to drive boring cars, let’s enjoy them while we still can.
 

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