Formula 1 Qualifying F1

Doohickey

Velociraptor
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2,496
It would be a new order for Merc, Hamilton is out of contract after 2022.
Hasn't Lewis signed a 2 year deal so is in the seat until the end of 2023?

You can understand the thought process if Red Bull and Ferrari (and McLaren) all have two top drivers then they could well score more points for the constructors than Merc have been able to recently with Bottas in the #2 seat. Russell would give them a better chance of getting good points for the 2nd car and Lewis would probably relish being pushed harder.

Sky F1 were speculating the Kimi's retirement is the first domino that will lead to Russell at Merc with Bottas going to Alfa. There's nothing confirmed that I've seen and Ted Kravitz was saying that it might be next week at Monza before all this is confirmed.
 

outrun

Member
Messages
5,017
Hasn't Lewis signed a 2 year deal so is in the seat until the end of 2023?

You can understand the thought process if Red Bull and Ferrari (and McLaren) all have two top drivers then they could well score more points for the constructors than Merc have been able to recently with Bottas in the #2 seat. Russell would give them a better chance of getting good points for the 2nd car and Lewis would probably relish being pushed harder.

Sky F1 were speculating the Kimi's retirement is the first domino that will lead to Russell at Merc with Bottas going to Alfa. There's nothing confirmed that I've seen and Ted Kravitz was saying that it might be next week at Monza before all this is confirmed.

Lol. Hamilton is the reason why Russell wasn't in the Merc this year. He does not relish being pushed and actually places obstacles in the way of that these days. His hesitancy to re-sign last year caused Merc to look to the future, that's why he didn't hesiate this year.

It's Russell to Merc
Bottas to Alfa Romeo
Nyck de Vries to Alfa Romeo
Giovanazzi looking for a seat
Alex Albon to Williams

The rest stay as they are for next year most likely although I think Mazepin and Yuki are in danger but will still likely stay as is.

Merc
Hamilton Russell

Red Bull
Verstappen Perez

Ferrari
Leclerc Sainz

McLaren
Norris Ricciardo

Alpine
Alonso Ocon

Aston Martin
Vettel Stroll

Alfa Romeo
Bottas De Vries

Williams
Albon Latifi

Haas
Schumacher Mazepin

Alpha Tauri
Gasly Tsunoda
 

dgmx5

Member
Messages
1,142
Lol. Hamilton is the reason why Russell wasn't in the Merc this year. He does not relish being pushed and actually places obstacles in the way of that these days. His hesitancy to re-sign last year caused Merc to look to the future, that's why he didn't hesiate this year.

It's Russell to Merc
Bottas to Alfa Romeo
Nyck de Vries to Alfa Romeo
Giovanazzi looking for a seat
Alex Albon to Williams

The rest stay as they are for next year most likely although I think Mazepin and Yuki are in danger but will still likely stay as is.

Merc
Hamilton Russell

Red Bull
Verstappen Perez

Ferrari
Leclerc Sainz

McLaren
Norris Ricciardo

Alpine
Alonso Ocon

Aston Martin
Vettel Stroll

Alfa Romeo
Bottas De Vries

Williams
Albon Latifi

Haas
Schumacher Mazepin

Alpha Tauri
Gasly Tsunoda

Nothing new in a champion wanting to control the team dynamic. Michael Schumacher did it at Ferrari as did Alonso, Vettel was protected by Red Bull from Webber until the point when he wasn't with Ricciardo and so left.

I don't think Hamilton or Russell will be affected if their relationship is distant. I don't see a Prost/Senna, Hamilton/Alonso or Hamilton/Rosberg situation arising as a result.

Ricciardo has fled the scene from Red Bull and Renault and I am not sure where he goes now given Norris is clearly so much faster than him. It's not the fact this is his first year in the car, but how little he has closed the gap.

I think it is a shame for both McLaren and Sainz that he chose to move to Ferrari but plenty of drivers have been tempted by the Prancing House only to squander their careers in hindsight. But maybe Norris needed to lose the bromance to move on himself. He looks a lot more ruthless with Sainz gone.

A return for Albon seems reasonable but why not back to Alpha Tauri in place of Tsunoda rather than lose him from the Red Bull programme altogether?

I think Mazepin is safe because of the money and who would want that seat that much that they would pay even more for it?

Mick Schumacher to Alfa Romeo seems no longer a possibility if the move from Ferrari to Mercedes engines is confirmed.

Agree that Giovinazzi may be gone in any shuffle of the pack despite the usual wisdom that you should not replace both drivers at the same time.
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,759
Most of above seems logical, Mazepin will stay due to the mo new that comes with him and I think Schmacher will get another year for the publicity if nothing else, Tsunoda will be safe as long as Honda provide support, directly or indirectly, for the engine.

Biggest change at Alfa with both seats changing, Kimi retiring is logical I have never been sure why he hung a round in non competitive car even with a Ferrari engine and that won't change if they swap to Merc power, although not sure if Merc can provide engines for 5 teams. Also Bottas to Alfa seems a strange move, surely the Williams has more potential and neither Latifi or Albon have shown any real desire to win races or even drive truly competitively.

As always the deck gets shuffled and changes are made but little will change at the front, I still see it being a straight fight between Merc & Red Bull but encouragingly the second tier big wider and more capable of snatching a result if things happen with the big two, interesting season ahead we hope.
 

ChrissGT

Member
Messages
341
I do not think it's a safe bet that next year it will be same at the front. Remember Brawn when regulations changed and they managed to get a step up on the competition. The new cars are supposed to be more equal, budget caps etc. Red Bull are keen to win everything this year and will push, as will mercedes. Where all others might be working a bit harder on the 2022 car.
 

Doohickey

Velociraptor
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2,496
Having Bottas and de Vries going to Alfa strongly suggests that they will switch to Merc power since they are both Merc drivers. Latifi also brings pots of cash so won't be going anywhere; not sure about Albon - Williams have a great tradition of bringing through youngsters so you would hope someone from Merc young drivers would get the seat.
 

outrun

Member
Messages
5,017
Most of above seems logical, Mazepin will stay due to the mo new that comes with him and I think Schmacher will get another year for the publicity if nothing else, Tsunoda will be safe as long as Honda provide support, directly or indirectly, for the engine.

Biggest change at Alfa with both seats changing, Kimi retiring is logical I have never been sure why he hung a round in non competitive car even with a Ferrari engine and that won't change if they swap to Merc power, although not sure if Merc can provide engines for 5 teams. Also Bottas to Alfa seems a strange move, surely the Williams has more potential and neither Latifi or Albon have shown any real desire to win races or even drive truly competitively.

As always the deck gets shuffled and changes are made but little will change at the front, I still see it being a straight fight between Merc & Red Bull but encouragingly the second tier big wider and more capable of snatching a result if things happen with the big two, interesting season ahead we hope.

Bottas has been at Williams, when they were half-decent too. It's just Bottas staying inside the Merc/Toto wing with a seat somewhere new. It's saying "we are replacing you but we thank you for your effort and so here's a chance to stay in F1 and then who knows what might happen". They are flexing their engine supply muscles to keep Bottas in a car, and to bring in De Vries etc.

Albon is good driver, he did OK at times in the RB, despite the lack of support that not being the lead driver brings. If you look at Perez, clearly more experienced and faster, he's blowing hot and cold too in that car. Doing better than most but inconsistent and suffering mechanical issues and so on. Albon also brings the Thai angle which is important for marketing, and he's relatively cheap too.
 

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,833
Nothing new in a champion wanting to control the team dynamic. Michael Schumacher did it at Ferrari as did Alonso, Vettel was protected by Red Bull from Webber until the point when he wasn't with Ricciardo and so left.

I don't think Hamilton or Russell will be affected if their relationship is distant. I don't see a Prost/Senna, Hamilton/Alonso or Hamilton/Rosberg situation arising as a result.

Ricciardo has fled the scene from Red Bull and Renault and I am not sure where he goes now given Norris is clearly so much faster than him. It's not the fact this is his first year in the car, but how little he has closed the gap.

I think it is a shame for both McLaren and Sainz that he chose to move to Ferrari but plenty of drivers have been tempted by the Prancing House only to squander their careers in hindsight. But maybe Norris needed to lose the bromance to move on himself. He looks a lot more ruthless with Sainz gone.

A return for Albon seems reasonable but why not back to Alpha Tauri in place of Tsunoda rather than lose him from the Red Bull programme altogether?

I think Mazepin is safe because of the money and who would want that seat that much that they would pay even more for it?

Mick Schumacher to Alfa Romeo seems no longer a possibility if the move from Ferrari to Mercedes engines is confirmed.

Agree that Giovinazzi may be gone in any shuffle of the pack despite the usual wisdom that you should not replace both drivers at the same time.
I wouldn’t be too sure about Hamilton and Russell being ok - as soon as there is a real threat the trouble starts between team mates. Russell will be a threat, he’s already shown that and Hamilton reacts badly to such situations, which will make it all the more interesting and might give Red Bull an advantage. I think that is why Toto has waited so long with bringing Russell in. Now he doesn’t really have a choice anymore and it will be the start of the end game for Hamilton in F1- I’m not saying the end.
 

Doohickey

Velociraptor
Messages
2,496
Just watching FP1 - this circuit looks epic.

Can't believe how many people are there for FP1.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
There are no guarantees Mercedes or Red Bull will be title contenders next year. They could all be fighting for 3rd place after Ferrari and McLaren for all we know.

Alas I thought I would never get weary of F1 after watching every championship I from when I could remember... Even through the Schumacher, Vettel and more recently Hamilton years... But it's the lack of on-track action combined with the snearing media creating non-stories which the fanatical trolls on social media eat up that has recently started to turn me against the sport
 

ChrissGT

Member
Messages
341
Just watching FP1 - this circuit looks epic.

Can't believe how many people are there for FP1.

It is still vacation period here for biggest part of the country. Also, 2 years in the making. This was expected. It is amazing if you know how small zandvoort is and the area of the circuit. Also bear in mind holland is still very much in lockdown. This event somehow managed to get the green light from the government. But there are no big events/festivals/clubs/bars open at the moment. So its kinda like the only place for 18 months you can go, drink, party and enjoy racing in the sun.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Just watching FP1 - this circuit looks epic.

Can't believe how many people are there for FP1.

I think I missed the first 5 minutes of running before the Aston Martin broke down and ruined the session.

Following on from last week's cancelled race this is a super entertaining start to the weekend.
 

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,833
I went to the Dutch GP in the late 70’s and early 80’s, in those days you could camp in the grounds. It was a great atmosphere and also LOUD in those days, although not as loud as the drag races I once went to there with the US style top fuel dragsters - that was a whole different level. The other thing that stands out from those days is the smell of exotic fuels.
 

dgmx5

Member
Messages
1,142
I was prepared to give Masi the benefit of the doubt, and yes the track was dry yesterday, but having seen that the day before I do think more credit should have been given to the drivers' complaints about the risk of aquaplaning. Thankfully itwas in quali so everyone was creating space. That could have been a repeat of Hubert.

Second week in a row when Masi's reading of a session is in question. Vettel parks the car on a fairly blind entry into pit lane during FP1 and proceeded to try to use two extinguishers on the car before Masi red flagged the session. It's FP and quite rightly the nearest marshal was reluctant to go on track.

I have felt the criticism of Masi had been previously unjustified but I think we are starting to see that Whiting was just so much more on top of this sort of thing.
 
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Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Second week in a row when Masi's reading of a session is in question. Vettel parks the car on a fairly blind entry into pit lane during FP1 and proceeded to try to use two extinguishers on the car before Masi red flagged the session. It's FP and quite rightly the nearest marshal was reluctant to go on track.

I have felt the criticism of Masi had been previously unjustified but I think we are starting to see that Whiting was just so much more on top of this sort of thing.

I’m imagining Vettel will be getting the ticking off finger in the Clerk Of The Course’s office for that daft effort.
 

dgmx5

Member
Messages
1,142
Told you Albon was going to Williams.

So now Russell doesn't have a seat......:)

I am very surprised Red Bull aren't blocking this and a little surprised that Mercedes rate Albon highly enough to place hin in the Williams.

Albon doesn't bring money himself I don't believe, but racing under a Thai license was good branding when he was at the Red Bull programme which obviously he won't be able to utilise in a Merc-powered team.

This feels as though he would be given 1-2 years to show if, like Gasly, his talent can shine once away from being in the environment of Horner/Marko which, with the exception for the chosen ones of Vettel and Verstappen, appears to be quite toxic.

I see a move for Albon to Williams as a test between himself and de Vries for a future no 2 drive to Russell. I wonder what role Russell has played in getting Albon this drive if it happens.

Red Bull have nothing to gain from Albon moving to Williams and quite a lot to lose over the coming years.

The gang of Norris, Russell and Albon remind me of the relationship between Hawthorn, Moss et al. Yes they will race hard against each other on a Sunday, but they are always friendly with each other and respectful.