Energy crisis

Gazcw · Sep 24, 2021

Lozzer said:
Get the UK workshy on the job....was it Denmark that said yes you can have benefits but you're going to have to work for it? It's what's wrong with this country and exactly why most want to settle here.

They are too busy on twatter and yooboob to get a job..

Gazcw · Sep 24, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Your electric boiler runs close to 100% efficiency. For every kWh used the same amount of energy goes into the water. Gas is similar. It's coincidence that today my ASHP was commissioned and it's efficiency is around 300% . It extracts the 'free' heat from the atmosphere and pumps it into my home in a reverse refrigerator style.
It's big but pretty cool especially stood in the cold air blast on a warm 21 degree day like today.

I was thinking of replacing cylinder with a heat battery and use ASHP or solar to heat it along with grid when needed. I am not ripping up floors to install underfloor heating just yet but maybe an ashp could supplement some of the heat. Its a bit of a minefield all this green stuff. Maybe I will just burn more dinosaurs.

Lozzer · Sep 24, 2021

Gazcw said:
They are too busy on twatter and yooboob to get a job..

And Tinder and Grinder, welcome to today's yoof, where benefits is a bonefide career option. (that doesn't include the folk here that have been through the system, been there done that.)

Phil H · Sep 24, 2021

RSM Masser said:
I’ll have to tow mine - does that count?
Got no petrol for the lawnmower ……

I can just picture you pulling up at the pumps on the back of a low loader

As for the lawn - buy sheep

Zep · Sep 24, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Your electric boiler runs close to 100% efficiency. For every kWh used the same amount of energy goes into the water. Gas is similar. It's coincidence that today my ASHP was commissioned and it's efficiency is around 300% . It extracts the 'free' heat from the atmosphere and pumps it into my home in a reverse refrigerator style.
It's big but pretty cool especially stood in the cold air blast on a warm 21 degree day like today.

Given that electricity costs about 4 times a kWh of gas, it’s probably for the best that it has a COP around 3. It will be more when the air outside is 21C. The economic argument for ASHP relies heavily on the excellent efficiency when it’s relatively warm outside. It’s not so hot, figuratively speaking, when it isn’t.

In my experience with air source heat pumps in the U.K. is where the air temp is between 2 and 8 degrees and high humidity. This this point a lot of ice forms on the outdoor coil requiring regular defrosting (where the compressor generates heat in the outdoor coil to melt the ice). At this point it’s backup electric heaters (as you say, COP 1) plus the power for the compressor. Once it drops below 0C it improves again as humidity drops off as the water is already ice on other surfaces like cars.

Just like PV and solar hot water, ASHP has limitations due to the British climate, but overall, it is more efficient, but not by as much as the headline 300% suggests.

In carbon terms, it really depends on how the electricity is generated. On average a kWh of electricity generates about 0.233 kg CO2e where as 1 kWh of gas around 0.184 kg CO2e. So slightly better in those terms too.

jasst · Sep 24, 2021

Zep said:
HGV driver wages have risen on between 2 and 2.7% per annum over the last few years. And as there was already a shortage of 50,000 drivers in 2018 there were plenty of reasons for pay to increase before the “cheap” labour went home, so I’m not sure it has been a historically badly paid job.

I do agree that that IR35 rules will have made some drivers move on, some would say allowing this tax wheeze for so long created the problem in the first place.

I think one of the other reasons is conditions. Traffic gets worse so deliveries leave earlier or drive overnight. I imagine this would put many drivers off. I wouldn’t want to do it.

Then there is the career situation. I guess there is a limit to the career progression available to a lorry driver. This has led to the reduction in new entrants into the labour market.

I understand that there is a need for 300,000 drivers in the U.K. and that there are 600,000 qualified drivers in the system, the majority of whom it seems have found more gainful employment.

Firms around here are offering wages of 45-50k/year, home every night 5 day week, £500/ day for working weekends , and a 5k signing on bonus, not a lot compared to what some of you earn, but I would. My youngest Daughter is going to get the Army (She's in the reserves) to train her for HGV licence

breezer · Sep 24, 2021

Corranga said:
Almost.
It’s really just Brexit that has forced the European drivers to avoid work in the UK that has lead to the shortage of drivers in the first place.
Covid is everywhere, and everywhere doesn’t have a shortage of fuel, HGV drivers, co2, chicken, pork…

Luckily our Government had the foresight to implement fantastic public transport infrastructure that we can rely on, and to not neglect it, run it into the ground, or leave it operating at excessive loads…

I’m sorry but that’s media ****. From someone I know who runs a large Europe wide logistics company: Brexit has had negligible impact on lorry driver availability. What has had an impact is the cost of COVID testing combined with the fact that salaries in Eastern Europe have shot up, making it relatively less attractive to work here now. Whereas people could work their arses off for 3 months here to live at home for 9 months, it’s now closer to 6 months and 6 months - and people aren’t willing to make that sacrifice.

The COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements also make driving a truck over here and heading back to see family at weekends unviable.

Zep · Sep 24, 2021

jasst said:
Firms around here are offering wages of 45-50k/year, home every night 5 day week, £500/ day for working weekends , and a 5k signing on bonus, not a lot compared to what some of you earn, but I would. My youngest Daughter is going to get the Army (She's in the reserves) to train her for HGV licence

True enough. £50k per year is a lot, so this is probably going to be a temporary issue, unless the conditions are so bad it still doesn’t work.

Zep · Sep 24, 2021

breezer said:
I’m sorry but that’s media ****. From someone I know who runs a large Europe wide logistics company: Brexit has had negligible impact on lorry driver availability. What has had an impact is the cost of COVID testing combined with the fact that salaries in Eastern Europe have shot up, making it relatively less attractive to work here now. Whereas people could work their arses off for 3 months here to live at home for 9 months, it’s now closer to 6 months and 6 months - and people aren’t willing to make that sacrifice.

The COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements also make driving a truck over here and heading back to see family at weekends unviable.

My personal experience is that there has been an increase in transit times due to clearances and what have you. It’s logical to me that the longer a load stays on a truck, the less time is available for other shipments, increasing demand. We have also seen costs increase.

That’s not to say that I am bitter and twisted about brexit, it’s just another thing that needs to be dealt with, what was a PITA at the time has quickly become the new normal with the logistics team getting used to the extra paperwork.

Corranga · Sep 24, 2021

breezer said:
I’m sorry but that’s media ****. From someone I know who runs a large Europe wide logistics company: Brexit has had negligible impact on lorry driver availability. What has had an impact is the cost of COVID testing combined with the fact that salaries in Eastern Europe have shot up, making it relatively less attractive to work here now. Whereas people could work their arses off for 3 months here to live at home for 9 months, it’s now closer to 6 months and 6 months - and people aren’t willing to make that sacrifice.

The COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements also make driving a truck over here and heading back to see family at weekends unviable.

Boris doesn’t seem to think it’s BS?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441339056164466695

Do the other European countries not have the high COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements? They don’t seem to be having a problem with a lack of drivers.

stikey · Sep 24, 2021

mjheathcote said:
Let's get plugging in our new EV's....

not there yet 3-5 years ovo zoom meeting i had 4 weeks ago they have been testing with 300 customers

stikey · Sep 25, 2021

mjheathcote said:
What's the going price at the moment for a typical system?
10 years ago it was something like £15k, bought the Maserati instead!
We have a perfect south-facing unshadowed roof.
Always thought the cost must come down to the point where you can use all the juice especially if we have a hybrid, or EV, working largely from home during sunlight, without the feed in tariff, does that exist anymore for new installs?

cost s 50% less these days for the solar good pv inst every install is different
the export tariff is up to 5p per kWh with octopus energy if there still here and not going bust BUT one may try and do a deal on the open market for export a know a customer who has just nailed a export deal for 12 months with wind gen at 12p per kwh
we are connecting the pv with battery storage getting them from 7am to 4am of grid and running units that heat the water and heating all from the pv system cost of that lot is 32k all done 10 year service intervals

stikey · Sep 25, 2021

Gazcw said:
I would be interested in discussing this more with you as I run electric hot water and oil boiler for heat currently. If I could heat the water by other means that and use any residual generated that would be good.

thats what were doing www.aelonline.co.uk

stikey · Sep 25, 2021

midlifecrisis said:
Your electric boiler runs close to 100% efficiency. For every kWh used the same amount of energy goes into the water. Gas is similar. It's coincidence that today my ASHP was commissioned and it's efficiency is around 300% . It extracts the 'free' heat from the atmosphere and pumps it into my home in a reverse refrigerator style.
It's big but pretty cool especially stood in the cold air blast on a warm 21 degree day like today.

asap that will cost you £150-200 per month to run then

stikey · Sep 25, 2021

Zep said:
Given that electricity costs about 4 times a kWh of gas, it’s probably for the best that it has a COP around 3. It will be more when the air outside is 21C. The economic argument for ASHP relies heavily on the excellent efficiency when it’s relatively warm outside. It’s not so hot, figuratively speaking, when it isn’t.

In my experience with air source heat pumps in the U.K. is where the air temp is between 2 and 8 degrees and high humidity. This this point a lot of ice forms on the outdoor coil requiring regular defrosting (where the compressor generates heat in the outdoor coil to melt the ice). At this point it’s backup electric heaters (as you say, COP 1) plus the power for the compressor. Once it drops below 0C it improves again as humidity drops off as the water is already ice on other surfaces like cars.

Just like PV and solar hot water, ASHP has limitations due to the British climate, but overall, it is more efficient, but not by as much as the headline 300% suggests.

In carbon terms, it really depends on how the electricity is generated. On average a kWh of electricity generates about 0.233 kg CO2e where as 1 kWh of gas around 0.184 kg CO2e. So slightly better in those terms too.

we fit pv and battery storage we are heating the hot water and c /heating and
supplying the electric 21hrs a day to a 5 bed detached houses 400watts pr hour to heat the water and 800watts per hour to heat the heating so why the fuk would someone use a ASHP @ 8000watts -19000watts to aheive part of that result because someone sales them a grant dreamers

breezer · Sep 25, 2021

Corranga said:
Boris doesn’t seem to think it’s BS?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441339056164466695

Do the other European countries not have the high COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements? They don’t seem to be having a problem with a lack of drivers.

They don’t have borders…

Another factor I forgot last night is that few have been taking HGV tests for nearly 2 years, and conditions are **** while pay has been poor. So older ones retire and nobody has been replacing them.

Politicians have to be seen to be doing something, whether or not it’ll actually help. Since when do we trust Boris to be doing the right thing?

I’m just going by what a successful logistics guy, who’s done his research, tells me rather than a press who likes to blame anything up to and including the rain on Brexit.

Felonious Crud · Sep 25, 2021

breezer said:
I’m sorry but that’s media ****. From someone I know who runs a large Europe wide logistics company: Brexit has had negligible impact on lorry driver availability. What has had an impact is the cost of COVID testing combined with the fact that salaries in Eastern Europe have shot up, making it relatively less attractive to work here now. Whereas people could work their arses off for 3 months here to live at home for 9 months, it’s now closer to 6 months and 6 months - and people aren’t willing to make that sacrifice.

The COVID testing costs and quarantine requirements also make driving a truck over here and heading back to see family at weekends unviable.

Thanks for sharing that. It's always good to get a second and informed opinion. Different industry, but I've seen a steady increase in salaries in E Europe over the last few years. It's not the cheap source of labour that it once was.

philw696 · Sep 25, 2021

Felonious Crud said:
Thanks for sharing that. It's always good to get a second and informed opinion. Different industry, but I've seen a steady increase in salaries in E Europe over the last few years. It's not the cheap source of labour that it once was.

That was one of the good things from the EU to bring other countries up to a higher standard.
Not that long ago countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia people were still using Ladas and the like but when I was working there in 2019 a big change all nice new cars and great shops and restaurants and a pleasure to be.
Not wanting to start a raucous debate but just what I saw.

Zep · Sep 25, 2021

stikey said:
we fit pv and battery storage we are heating the hot water and c /heating and
supplying the electric 21hrs a day to a 5 bed detached houses 400watts pr hour to heat the water and 800watts per hour to heat the heating so why the fuk would someone use a ASHP @ 8000watts -19000watts to aheive part of that result because someone sales them a grant dreamers

Is that 800 watts a instantaneous to heat a 5 bed house? I would respectfully suggest that it might heat one room. I think there are some zeros missing from your post.

stikey · Sep 25, 2021

were heating all the zones thermo store tank

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