360 story and engine rebuild

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Greetings all,

I have been posting mainly in the Granturismo section for the past few months after purchasing a 2010 GTS MC shift. However, due to recent 'developments' with my Ferrari 360 I thought I would put together some story pics and recent engine strip down woes. Here goes;

In 2002 I purchased a very low mileage 360 Modena after owning a number of TVRs. I still own that 360 and have done 105,000 miles in it over the past 17 years. The car has been used for daily commuting in London over a 3 year period come rain or shine, a large number of road trips, track days, events and general holiday trips - in short - I have used it pretty much every day for everything, including supermarket shopping. I have always serviced the car regularly and stayed on top of maintenance - of which all of has been consumables.. yes, nothing major has had to be replaced and the car has never ever let me down, a testament to Ferrari build quality providing these cars get looked after, and more importantly, driven on a regular basis.
I will kick off with some photos, the ones below were taken 2 years ago on a road trip to Spain:

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Below the 911 has now been replaced with the GTS:

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The GTS was purchased a couple of months ago and needed a certain amount of work carrying out to bring it up to my required standard mechanically so I took it down to Aldous at AV Engineering for the work and at the same time brought the 360 in for a cambelt service after a year in storage whilst refurbishing our house.

AV Engineering subsequently noticed an oil leak from the clutch bell housing and investigated further taking the gearbox off:
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Bebs

Member
Messages
403
The cause of the oil leak was quickly discovered by AV.. an incorrect rear main seal had been fitted previously by another service center rather than the correct OEM seal which incidentially is only a £17 part..

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Unfortunately the bad news didn't end there - because the incorrect rear main seal was effectively 1.5 mm thicker, without the correct rubber flange which the OEM seal has and had been forced into place anyway, the outcome over some mileage had been a large score mark on the Crank shaft itself meaning a new correct OEM seal would now not be able to stop oil leaking past.. you can clearly see the score line on the photo below:

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The next question is 'what on earth do we do now'
Following discussions down at AV when I collected the GTS, we decided to pull the engine out, given the high mileage, strip it down completely and try to purchase a decent used crank and replace it.. all due to a £17 OEM part having been replaced with a cheaper alternative. The car is clearly a keeper and although costly, I felt it was worth lavishing the TLC on the car and correct this now rather expensive fault.
AV immediately set out removing the engine:

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Strip down commences:

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Another close up of the crank score mark:

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Contigo

Centenary Club
Messages
17,987
Wow that's a proper gutter and clearly shows what **** poor service centers can do to ruin people's ownership experience. I'd be sending them this thread and asking them to pay something towards the cost if it were me. You are in good hands with Voicey that's for sure and he will sort it out. Good luck finding a used crank!
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Unfortunately further bad news were to appear. On stripping the engine apart AV found a number of small metal pieces in and around the sump:

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These metal pieces appeared to have caused marks and damage to the underside of some of the pistons:

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A score mark was also found on cylinder bore no 8:

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The engine was quickly moved up into AV's newly refurbished engine room where further inspections were carried out. The big question was obviously where these metal bits had originated from..
This issue was also quickly discovered by the AV team.. on removing the oil pump and taking it apart the smoking gun had shown itself.. one of the wheels had a large chunk of metal missing!

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2b1ask1

Centenary Club
Messages
16,019
Ouch! It is in the right hands now and will soon be ripping up the tarmac once more.
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Luckily these replacement oil pump wheels are available to purchase for a 360 unlike a 430 where a new £2000 oil pump is required.. wow some good news at last!!
AV continued to investigate, meassure up, inspect and subsequently have come to the decision that the engine is in remarkably good health given the very high mileage and have managed to polish out the score mark on cylinder no 8, what a relief:

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We originally feared all valve seats would have to be replaced also, due to the mileage but as it turns out only the 16 exhaust valve guides need replacing. Further good news have recently come my way in that the pistons are sound despite the small marks:

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To further bring a smile to my face - after all the devastating news - I received a call from AV the other day that they had taken the Crank to Hill Engineering who are confident the can machine the score mark down and still remain within tolerance of the OEM rear main seal - phew.. its not easy sourcing a used crank in good condition and a new crank is £6500 from the factory.
Clearly if the crank had not been scored we would not now know about the damaged oil pump wheel and the floating metal pieces so I suppose all in all it was just as well we decided to strip the engine down.. on reflection it could have been much much worse...

So, this is where we are now. AV a waiting for various parts to start the rebuild over winter and with a bit of luck on our side the car should be back in rude health and on the road again come the spring. I can't wait to get it back - she's part of the family after all these years and will remain in the stable for many years to come.
Naturally I will update this thread as we move forward and hope I am not boring you with these engine woes.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
7,021
After doing so many miles as a daily, did it ever just become a 'normal car' and loose its charm?
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
After doing so many miles as a daily, did it ever just become a 'normal car' and loose its charm?
Yes, I think over the 3 years of London commuting it slipped into a 'normal car' role and just became a vehicle, albeit a very nice one. On reflection I should have just bought a cheap runaround but at the time I was much younger and far too busy chasing skirt and having fun ;-)
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
1,714
Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

I wonder, if you can prove who fitted the seal, if they could clAim on their PI insurance ?
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

I wonder, if you can prove who fitted the seal, if they could clAim on their PI insurance ?
We believe the incorrect seal was fitted some 6 years ago and has only just been discovered, partly due to the car having been in storage for some time. There is little recourse after such a time frame unfortunately.
 

2b1ask1

Centenary Club
Messages
16,019
I think you would have very great difficulty getting any admission out of the culprits even if it was just a couple of years earlier. Just narks me to think anyone would think ‘oh well that’s near enough’ let alone the prestige marque.
 

redsonnylee

Centenary Club
Messages
1,268
Fantastic thread, it’s also good to see the mileage these can can cover. Especially with a few over the 40,000 mile mark up for sake. I’m still looking for one and I’m now very positive about higher miles as not in ownership to keep it in the garage.

It’s also good to hear you have someone looking after and fixing the car that really understand these engines.

Glad to hear all is going well.
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Fantastic thread, it’s also good to see the mileage these can can cover. Especially with a few over the 40,000 mile mark up for sake. I’m still looking for one and I’m now very positive about higher miles as not in ownership to keep it in the garage.

It’s also good to hear you have someone looking after and fixing the car that really understand these engines.

Glad to hear all is going well.
Do speak to Aldous at AV engineering if you are seriously in the market for one. Service history and condition is far more important than actual mileage.. AV have had 360 engines apart with 30,000 miles that were in far worse condition than my 105,000 miler.. condition is everything With these cars.
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Be interesting your thoughts on 360 v GTS MC...
I really enjoy the GTS. I look at it as an inexpensive 4 seater Ferrari.. so many things remind me of the 360.. the steering feel on both cars is very similar. Obviously the GTS is ‘calmer’ than the 360 and less highly strung but driving it very much ’feels’ like a sister car. I’m absolutely delighted with the GTS.. not only is it an achingly beautiful design, it has much more of a Jekyll & Hyde character than the 360 and is far more practical for obvious reasons. The sound is not too shabby either! :alan4:
The GTS is about to go into AV for the second part of some mechanical maintenance required, new engine mounts, some cosmetic bits, and an X-pipe.

One thing I can say is that when I get into my Alpina B5 Touring, despite being armed with 530 bhp and 520 lbs-ft, it positively feels like an old boat going round corners compared to the other two!

Granturismo‘s are somewhat of a bargain to my eyes given their current pricing, providing you get a decent one of course or the bills can quickly add up.
I for one am smitten :dance2:
 

Lavazza

Member
Messages
541
Thanks for your views. I have a 2009 GTS MC. Been having some 'refreshing' done to keep it A1 and was thinking of selling, but I've been missing it and increasingly think I'll keep it and put the miles on without fear. Otherwise feel like I'll be giving it away when I've invested in it.

I'd like an F360, and your posting has had me browsing AT and PH. Some good value cars out there in the current market. But I don't especially want to sell my Exige S or 500SL, so I'll just have to work harder!
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
30,461
Well done and hats off to Voicey, no small task and appreciate his engineering work round where many would have gone new crank.

Keep us posted.
 

Bebs

Member
Messages
403
Pleasure Lavazza. I’m glad to hear you’re finding life difficult without the GTS.. only serves to reaffirm my own thoughts about the Granturismo. Keep working hard :)