LA61DYC Ferrari FF

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,101
Press cars do get looked after, they're basically financial write offs from the importer's point of view and maintenance costs will be budgetted for. It's in their interest to supply the next reviewer with a tip top motor.
AutoTrader and Top Gear have used the same MC20 (RK71EZZ) to carry out their reviews. I'm sure we'll see jayemm in it and other youtoobers down the pecking order.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
Just had a look at the PH thread - Jayemm is getting a bit of a “doing” and getting a bit defensive.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
At least he got a PPI this time unlike the yellow 360!
I wonder if thats the problem - motoring “influencer” who helped his mate buy a lemon and then nearly bought himself a lime to go with it.:p
 
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gb-gta

Member
Messages
1,127
Seems to me the best Ferrari to buy would be about 4 years old, then sell at 6 still with 1 year of Ferrari warranty left. Or just get something more sensible, like a Maserati.
 

outrun

Member
Messages
5,017
It's a mixed bag from James again. He mentioned that the PTU could fail, and that they once cost £30k to replace. That's now less than 10k as Simon Furlonger has a rebuild service which includes some upgraded O rings, the cause of the issue. It's a simple case of oil passing a seal that it shouldn't leading to a mess. The later FF and the Lusso has a different colour O ring set, and the incidence of failures is less. It's a good example of a manufacturer knowing there is a potential issue, fixing it mid-life cycle but still charging a stupid amount to replace a part that can be repaired. And much like the famous issue with 997 model 911s, the actual number of failure is in the single figure percentages, still too many, but it's a bit exagerrated. There's a long thread on FChat about it and the reports of age/mileage of member's cars that it's happened to etc.

If you look at FF prices, you'll see a jump 2014 cars onwards of between 10-20k. This is because the main dealers and many specialists know they received several updates and repairs and the later cars are regarded better as such. A 14 plate or a 64 will be 120k or more, where a 12 plate is 100.

Other than that, the items mentioned are just wear and tear stuff that should have been better taken care of. For example, my FF has been cleaned and undersealed and every bolt for the undertrays replaced with stainless steel items. Not hard to do but will certainly help keep the elements away from hoses, fixings, sub frames and so on as well as making sure that service departments can get the trays off and don't just give up and say they did.

In the end, it's a very early car, high miles, many owners, lots of different drivers and if it was a Granturismo, all of us would be telling a buyer to walk unless it was mega cheap. And the £88k that he was going to pay isn't cheap. It's keen, but not cheap. McLaren will just want what they paid to get out of it as they maybe paid a little too much as you have to in order to get someone into a McLaren.

Usual story, spend a little more, get one a bit newer, less miles, less owners and then get it inspected.

Cheap and supercar shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
I must admit I’m a bit confused about the horror around the trade auction bit of the story. Is £15 k of repairs really that much for tidying up what was a £240k Ferrari bought cheap at auction?
 
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midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,101
If only Ferrari used the right colour o-rings from the start? Maybe the warehouse man or woman was colour blind...i'm being sarcastic...

I suppose the PTU issue is no different to the variator issue. Fixed during the production run and cars after engine number 148697 are good.
 

MaserMike

Member
Messages
329
With that in mind, (GDPR), effectively no car will ever have a service history......

Although I know Mercedes store the service history on line, not sure if that removes owners details etc though.

Best get a PPI before purchase. Unless your name is Spoons.
Similar in Japan, as they have very strict data privacy laws... was trying to get hold of history for some Ferrari 512TRs I was previously close to buying and already imported to the UK from Japan...and even got my Japanese friend to call some dealers up where there was partial evidence they had serviced them, basically a strict no.... If no paperwork history with these cars, then good luck.

Luckily my Testarossa which was originally a European model and which was also imported from Japan into the UK, came with extensive history.

I also indeed got a PPI, credit to the excellent UK specialist broker he spent £10k sorting numerous bits and pieces out picked up on the PPI. Also stuck to his warranty commitment, had a leak with the brand new header tank and he without question paid for a new one...
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
I must admit I’m a bit confused about the horror around the trade auction bit of the story. Is £15 k of repairs really that much for tidying up what was a £240k Ferrari bought cheap at auction?
Valid point!
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,069
I must admit I’m a bit confused about the horror around the trade auction bit of the story. Is £15 k of repairs really that much for tidying up what was a £240k Ferrari bought cheap at auction?

I don’t think the original fault list 6 months after he bought the car was that bad either.
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,756
It's a mixed bag from James again. He mentioned that the PTU could fail, and that they once cost £30k to replace. That's now less than 10k as Simon Furlonger has a rebuild service which includes some upgraded O rings, the cause of the issue. It's a simple case of oil passing a seal that it shouldn't leading to a mess. The later FF and the Lusso has a different colour O ring set, and the incidence of failures is less. It's a good example of a manufacturer knowing there is a potential issue, fixing it mid-life cycle but still charging a stupid amount to replace a part that can be repaired. And much like the famous issue with 997 model 911s, the actual number of failure is in the single figure percentages, still too many, but it's a bit exagerrated. There's a long thread on FChat about it and the reports of age/mileage of member's cars that it's happened to etc.

If you look at FF prices, you'll see a jump 2014 cars onwards of between 10-20k. This is because the main dealers and many specialists know they received several updates and repairs and the later cars are regarded better as such. A 14 plate or a 64 will be 120k or more, where a 12 plate is 100.

Other than that, the items mentioned are just wear and tear stuff that should have been better taken care of. For example, my FF has been cleaned and undersealed and every bolt for the undertrays replaced with stainless steel items. Not hard to do but will certainly help keep the elements away from hoses, fixings, sub frames and so on as well as making sure that service departments can get the trays off and don't just give up and say they did.

In the end, it's a very early car, high miles, many owners, lots of different drivers and if it was a Granturismo, all of us would be telling a buyer to walk unless it was mega cheap. And the £88k that he was going to pay isn't cheap. It's keen, but not cheap. McLaren will just want what they paid to get out of it as they maybe paid a little too much as you have to in order to get someone into a McLaren.

Usual story, spend a little more, get one a bit newer, less miles, less owners and then get it inspected.

Cheap and supercar shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
I recently had to change the O rings on my 1979 F400i (for the same reason - oil leaking through where it shouldn’t). You would have thought that 40 years on Ferrari would have learnt their lesson!
 

Chrisb2015

Member
Messages
538
Difficult one this. It shows four things in my opinion..... 1) Supercars are expensive to maintain properly, 2) If you don't have a bottomless pit of money or are scared of a big bill look elsewhere, 3) The cheapest car of any type will almost certainly need money being spent on it and 4) Get a PPI.

I don't see McLaren as having done much wrong. Its the cheapest on the market for a reason...
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,756
96374
Wrong thread I know, but anyway...
Saw this at Emblem earlier in the week.
“Interesting” wrap, and as for the Alfa Male sticker on the wing...!
(In case the pic isn’t high enough resolution, the sticker on the wing says Alfa Male along the top, above the symbols for Ferrari and Maserati in a grid pattern).
 

Guy

Member
Messages
1,999
Difficult one this. It shows four things in my opinion..... 1) Supercars are expensive to maintain properly, 2) If you don't have a bottomless pit of money or are scared of a big bill look elsewhere, 3) The cheapest car of any type will almost certainly need money being spent on it and 4) Get a PPI.

I don't see McLaren as having done much wrong. Its the cheapest on the market for a reason...
Chris, I agree with you except your last point. I would reasonably expect a blue chip dealer to PPI and prep a car they want to retail. Richard Grace does it on his own! If not, they should trade the car out and avoid unhappy customers and damage to their reputation.
BTW, the buyer at DL Ferrari (and Maserati at the time) informed me that they need £15k across each car because of the cost to prep to their std (and pay VAT, commission, profit of course).
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,746
I must admit I’m a bit confused about the horror around the trade auction bit of the story. Is £15 k of repairs really that much for tidying up what was a £240k Ferrari bought cheap at auction?

Its the fact it needs that and did at the time it was being retailed.
 
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c4sman

Member
Messages
1,243
Its the fact it needs that and did at the time it was being retailed.

To be clear I agree 100% it should never have been retailed with that work outstanding. That’s unacceptable.

I’m purely talking about the concern around it being auctioned. I don’t get the concern here particularly as it’s a Business to Business transaction. It’s like a property developer buys a house cheap at auction and the legal pack doesn’t mention it needs a new roof. Surely that goes with the territory and the developer should have allowed for a degree of unknown renovation costs, or surveyed the house to make sure they had a good forecast of the repair costs including knowing it needs a roof and factoring that into what they are prepared to pay?

I also don’t understand surprise and shock when someone buys a car that originally cost close to £0.25m and gets surprised that it is expensive to maintain and repair. Even if you pay £5k used, it still carries the the running costs (parts, specialist labour etc.) of a high value car, particularly with a prancing horse on the bonnet!
 

Chrisb2015

Member
Messages
538
Chris, I agree with you except your last point. I would reasonably expect a blue chip dealer to PPI and prep a car they want to retail. Richard Grace does it on his own! If not, they should trade the car out and avoid unhappy customers and damage to their reputation.
BTW, the buyer at DL Ferrari (and Maserati at the time) informed me that they need £15k across each car because of the cost to prep to their std (and pay VAT, commission, profit of course).
Whilst I appreciate we would all expect a vehicle to be properly inspected and prepared it simply doesn't happen, almost irrespective of where it comes from. Jayemm has had his own issues with the Scud he brought from DL, I know having spoken to DL they have done £20k worth of remedial work after the sale and his friend had to reject an FF recently. I purchased a car from a well known dealer in the New Forest last year and rather than take their word for it that it was A1, I had it inspected after collection by Matt and Ashley. The inspection discovered multiple jobs that needed doing, some were on the preventative maintenance end of the spectrum and some were not. A difficult and arduous back and forth ensued with the supplying dealer until we came to a reasonable agreement. Everything has now been remedied.

There really are only a handful of dealers where I would be happy to pay and drive away care free. Richard Grace for Maserati and Aston, Alastair Bols for McLaren and 911V for Porsche. Others are happy to forego a great reputation in pursuit of profit and the big boys do have shareholders after all.