This 16v 33 for sale .... doesnt add up

[Supercharged16v]

Morning guys


Someone sent this link to me regarding a 33 for sale, wanted my opinion....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Time-Warp...2414471?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35ce2e6807


Not sure what to make of this car but I have my doubts .....



First of all, this car is advertised as a time wrap condition 1.7 16v 1991 model

For which I dont know what to believe....

Sure enough, the body is in great condition - apart from the rear spoiler.
Rear spoiler the seller says it had been used as a grabbing point - thus the crack
However, living in Cyprus with all this heat, I know that the lacquer top layer will crack and flake off if a car is exposed to extensive sun.

Trust me on this, extensive sun is just as bad as rust. Every plastic clip, dashboard, seat foam etc etc will snap, brake or perish.

In any case, thats not the MOST important thing I found...

Yes the car has been sitting in a barn for years, but that's not ideal to be honest.
Among other things , I am certain it will need a secondary clutch cylinder, and a water pump to begin with, not to mention some exhaust pipes (I'm guessing he only did the back box in stainless).
Timing belts have been done, and brakes repaired as mentioned by the seller.



My biggest concern, and I hope I'm wrong, is that I believe the car has had an engine transplant !
This car was either a 1.7 8v OR a 1.5 iE !


First of all, the interior is NOT the 16v's one.
All 16v's came with Recaro checkered seats AS STANDARD.

Then, its the side skirts. Again NOT from the 16v.
Those should dip down at the back and point out a bit at the front, which again came as standard.

Also the radiator filler tank is NOT from a 1991 Alfa 33. Those came on later models (1993 onward).


To be completely fair though, the rest of the body DOES look like a 16v should - painted bumpers (the water sprayers must had been an add on), clear front indicator lenses, red stripe in the front heart of the grille, 4 bolt front suspension, but I am really confused by this one.....




So to sum things up, IF by any chance, the seats and the side skirts were NOT standard in some countries (which I seriously doubt it) and the radiator filler tank had been changed at some point when the car was used, then I would unwillingly admit that this is the real deal, but I would still advice for the chassis number to be checked prior to any purchase.
Sure enough the engine is a 1991 16v with 137 bhp.

If I'm right though, then this car used to be a 1.7 8v or a 1.5 iE and has had an engine transplant - which leads to other questions.
Mileage ????
Transplant done properly ???
Front section of the crossmember changed or modified to fit ???


This will need further investigation.

If anyone here is interested, I suggest you have a closer look prior to bidding.


Have a good one

 

[dickyb]

Hi Chris

Nice to see you on here!

That car is not a conversion, its a 16v I.E, a model only produced in 1991. It is basically exactly the same spec as the 1.7IE 8v (Alfa Control, partly colour coded bumpers, plain black plastic mirrors and small side skirts, velour interior etc) but has the 16v motor fitted. I believe the suspension is also the same as the 1.7IE hence the higher ride height. They were badged simply as "16v" or "Boxer 16v" and are quite rare now as they didn't sell many and were only available for a short time. I believe they were also available in mainland Europe.

A few UK press photos for your info:

 

[lisknik]

All I can say is thank gawd I got you lot to talk to about them

 

[Supercharged16v]

Dickyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy )))

Hi mate

I stand corrected then.

To be honest, I never saw such a 33 before in my life, surely not with an alfa control.

An oddity I spotted a while back was a guy in Germany who owned an S3 Alfa 33 with .... get this.... CLIMATE CONTROL !!!

So I suppose its one of those things which applied in certain countries only.


Is this your car mate ?

 

[dickyb]

No its not my car!

You do see the 16v IEs from time to time but as I said they are quite rare.

Yep climate control is a funny one, I've seen a few cars with it but there are no references to it on Eper, they seem to use the Alfa 155/Lancia Dedra control panel. I understand it was a hugely expensive option when the cars were new, it may have been retrofitted by the supplying dealers. Here's a pic of the control panel:

View attachment 17977

 

[Supercharged16v]

No its not my car!

You do see the 16v IEs from time to time but as I said they are quite rare.

Yep climate control is a funny one, I've seen a few cars with it but there are no references to it on Eper, they seem to use the Alfa 155/Lancia Dedra control panel. I understand it was a hugely expensive option when the cars were new, it may have been retrofitted by the supplying dealers. Here's a pic of the control panel:

View attachment 17977

Yes I know its not your red one Obviously ! haha
I just wasnt sure if that was the only one you had.


I was very interested to know about those climate control modules. Was wondering if the condessing units would be fitted in the same place and with the same setup/shape/size as the normal factory A/C units of the 33's.

If so, I'm chuffed that mine doesnt have one, as it would be an expensive optional extra, which.... wouldnt work

 

[dickyb]

One 33 is enough for me! I've been tempted to set fire to the bloody thing on more than one occasion! Old Maseratis are much less hassle!

I think the condensers should be the same on this system but all the electronics and the compressor will be different due to it being climate control rather than just a/c. The principles are exactly the same in terms of cooling/heat exchangers etc but the control side of things is different and will include components like temperature sensors etc. I would be very interested to see more about these systems but they are pretty rare and it would be difficult to find out.

 

[Supercharged16v]

Oh well, when in Doubt , do without

I had a working factory A/C fitted on mine, and I took it off anyway, coz it wasnt that good. So why drag it along ?

I could fit it back, just a 20 min job the way things are on my car, but one more summer has happily come to an end, and I survived without it , so I dont see any point really besides the irritating fact that I've got a button on my dashboard which does..... nothing



Something a bit out of topic, you know that pin you sent me ?
I'll be using it this weekend at our Italian Car Fest

 

[zagatoes30]

Looks a nice 33 that doesn't need much TLC. As always depends on the price, plenty of time to go

 

[dickyb]

Oh well, when in Doubt , do without

I had a working factory A/C fitted on mine, and I took it off anyway, coz it wasnt that good. So why drag it along ?

I could fit it back, just a 20 min job the way things are on my car, but one more summer has happily come to an end, and I survived without it , so I dont see any point really besides the irritating fact that I've got a button on my dashboard which does..... nothing



Something a bit out of topic, you know that pin you sent me ?
I'll be using it this weekend at our Italian Car Fest

Glad you liked it!

Don't suppose you have any spare a/c pipes do you? I need the one that runs from the right side condenser to the filter drier. I'm currently struggling with a LHD one and the last part is rigid meaning that it dictates where the filter drier is sited. Unfortunately at the moment that means it has to go horizontally on top of the brake servo, not ideal. I think the RHD one has a slightly different routing and enables you to fit the filter drier somewhere near the junction box on the right side, clear of the brake servo...

 

[vantastic]

I have had another look at the photos, I notice the speedo needle sits at 20MPH?

 

[lisknik]

I have had another look at the photos, I notice the speedo needle sits at 20MPH?

I noticed that aswell

 

[conaero]

Yeah, so did I.

I take it that is not normal then!

Sort of thing that happens when they are tampered with....if you get my drift.

 

[vantastic]

I dont know, thats why I pointed it out as mine sits at 20 mph as well, but picks up once you go over 20, I checked it with sat/nav and works fine, I guess under 20 dont matter in an Alfa anyway lol

 

[dickyb]

Yep they all do that, even my brand new one:

 

[vantastic]

one less thing to think about then, do we know why?

 

[Supercharged16v]

Richard no mate, sorry, I dont think I do

I'll have a look though regardless, just in case, but I never save these things

It would be fairly easy to fabricate one - which I recommend anyway because you'll get better quality rubber today.




Regarding the Speedo starting off at 20, its just how it is.
I have a high end radio in my car though, and it is connected to the speedo drive of the gearbox to give me speed readings, warnings, SDVC etc, and even that, below 20khm it doesnt read properly.

 

[dickyb]

thanks Chris, I know you can get these things made up but its so much easier to just have the correct part and besides, after all the hassle with my car the only person I trust to work on it is myself. Do you think you might be able to find one at a breakers? No chance here, a/c was a very expensive option and only a few cars had it fitted.

Not sure why the speedo starts at 20mph, as Chris says, that's just the way it is, that's where the needle stop is if you look closely at the photo.

 

[Supercharged16v]

There could be mate, I'll have a look like I said and I'll let you know

However, have in mind that I've seen many different variations of these hoses.

Some were with the dry filter mounted in front of the servo unit, some with the filter mounted behind the servo unit in the corner, and some were mounted with a bracket inside the engine bay ! So ideally I'd like to know where you want to mount yours, as obviously the hose will be different in length or/and with different metal fitting angle.

 

[dickyb]

Thanks Chris. I am looking to have this setup like I had on my old Sportwagon. It has the filter drier on the right side of the car tucked away in the corner:




I also need some of these clips if you can find them? They're for the rigid PAS pipe that runs across the back of the engine bay.





I also need the plastic caps that go over the front wiper arm securing nuts, can't find any here.