My 3200 GT hard to start

[ledlights]

It won't do unless the engine is running. The butterfly is disabled until the crank sensor registers movement.

From your posts It still sounds like you've got 2 faults: the TB and something to do with the RFID tag in the key (from memory, you didn't have a starting problem with your red key did you?) and the induction coil or wiring around the ignition switch causing the immobiliser to stay on. My TB was rebuilt and caused a problem for 2 years because I believed that it couldn't be to blame (it has been tested sir....) until finally realising it was the only thing left that could be at fault. I'd send it back to be looked at.

 

[Alecci]

Forgot to add, naturally as one always forgets something, that of course I took the time to firmly establish once more that all connectors were clean and properly connected (the workshop could after all have forgotten one). I also checked the wires in the engine bay in order to see if they looked damaged, but they all looked in pristine condition.

It won't do unless the engine is running. The butterfly is disabled until the crank sensor registers movement.

From your posts It still sounds like you've got 2 faults: the TB and something to do with the RFID tag in the key (from memory, you didn't have a starting problem with your red key did you?) and the induction coil or wiring around the ignition switch causing the immobiliser to stay on. My TB was rebuilt and caused a problem for 2 years because I believed that it couldn't be to blame (it has been tested sir....) until finally realising it was the only thing left that could be at fault. I'd send it back to be looked at.

Steve mate,

I'd like to express my heartfelt thanks for your impressive patience trying to help me out.

In the Youtube video posted in #57 of this thread the butterfly is clearly moving while engine is not running, are you sure crank sensor has to register movement in order for it to operate?

The starting problems persisted with the red master key, the only difference was the Keycode light didn't lit up.

I will contact Bill about the problems and ask that I may send the current one back to him and receive another one in exchange.

 

[ledlights]

Interesting, when I tried mine with the TB before it was fixed properly, it wouldn't open until it was turning over on the starter. If I get a chance today, I'll check if this is still the case.

On the immobiliser issue, maybe there are 2 faults if different keys give different symptoms?

 

[davy83]

i think some cars have had the link between the immobiliser and the engine running disconnected. I know my car will start with the lock light on. I have a separate central locking fob and the little button on the key does nothing. It sounds like with the red key the immobiliser is happy and the light goes out, so the lock light problem is with that one key, the RFID chip has either been damaged (not sure it survives dropped or immersed for a while in water) or fallen out (its tiny) or some one has cut a new key and not realised there is an RFID chip that also needs to be registered with the immobiliser, get a spare key from dealer, and get people from link above to program it, that's what I did.
I suspect this is a completely different problem form the starting issue. If you don't get more feedback on the TB let me know i could take the intake hoses off my car and establish what it will and wont do so you can compare.
Stick at it sir you will get there, my car also went into melt down within 6 months of buying it, and i had key problem, central locking issue, TB faulty, pedal sensor faulty and crank sensor damaged, and at least 4 faulty relays and a bad fuse block under the footwell all at the same time and it was SOOOOOO frustrating trying to isolate all this stuff. One at a time, and log all the error codes!!!

 

[ledlights]

Alex - just to confirm that on my car, a March 2000 3200gt with pre-OBD ECU (4CM), the butterfly won't open when the ignition is on without the engine started. Maybe they changed this when the moved over to the later OBD ECU? However, it will open when running, as you'd expect!

Davy - I wonder whether you car has hard the alarm/key fob replaced due to a fault in the past? The firm linked in post 58 on this thread, allude to this. Is your key fob branded so that you could check.

In any case, when my car's battery was on its last legs the key light would illuminate on the dash but the car would still start. Maybe there's a voltage level that will give rise to this symptom....

Steve

 

[davy83]

My thoughts exactly Steve i assumed when i saw the TOAD alarm and the fact that this operates the door locks, that this was a fix applied in the past some time. it works ok, i replace d the TOAD system for a new one to get a spare fob but other wise i have had no problems, so whatever was done seems ok!

 

[bill]

Hi guys
I just spotted this thread. Alex, what a nightmare! I ll dig around see if I can find out anything but i think the others have covered everything. The behaviour of the butterfly with just the ignition on does not follow any logic: some throttlebodies move others don't! The throttlebody upgrade I do gets checked on my car under various conditions (cold start, hot start, normal running, WOT, idling etc) so I don't think it's the throttlebody. Of course I can double check this so feel free to send it back Alex. Which leaves the question what else can it be? I am afraid Alex the only way you will find out is by using the Maserati diagnostics and some one that knows how to use this..!

Insidently my immobiliser light stays on ocationally but the car starts and behaves normally. I then turn it off and on again and it goes out... It's just one of those things!

To be continued....

 

[Alecci]

Bill, good thing that you chimed in mate.

Unless it's the TB I'm not sure what it can be. As written previously in this thread, I had the PP checked and adjusted, its outputs for idle and WOT are now spot on for the recommended values, so I'm quite sure it does what it's supposed to.

I doubt it's the ECU as I'm quite convinced that the car wouldn't start (and thus run) at all if it were at fault. I'm not 100 % sure though.

I'll try to start the car and check the TB for movement once it's started, but I guess it will not move then either. If it did move, the engine would rev when pressing the accelerator - but it doesn't. I'd love to be able to test it on another car before sending it back, but I don't know of any 3200 GT owners near me (there's only about 40 cars in Sweden), so it's not really a viable alternative at this point.

The CTD I have received also points to either the TB or the PP, and I think we have ruled out the PP as stated above.

 

[bill]

No probs just send it over and I ll check it over

Cheers

 

[Contigo]

Any update on this one?

 

[Contigo]

http://www.maseratiforum.co.uk/3200GT_Waste_Gates/m_66746/tm.htm

 

[Alecci]

No updates as of yet, I'm afraid. I'm waiting for an opportunity to take the new TB off the car and ship it back to Bill. Butterfly doesn't open even with engine running, so my guess is that either the TB is isn't working properly, or there's bound to be a wire/cable issue somewhere. I doubt that that ECU is at fault since I'm able to start the engine, and I'm likewise quite convinced the pedal sensor is not the culprit since measuring the voltage outputs, which are within specified range and spot on the recommended values.

The only remaining DTC also points to the TB.

I've not had the time to pursue the immobilizer route any further as of yet, but hopefully will soon as I will be able to take the car home to my own garage in one or two weeks.

 

[Contigo]

Ok I am in similar position where I have a TB from bill and I have fitted it and within 10 mins the CEL comes on. I then do the pedal reset and the CEL goes out for a time. I am taking the car down to Mike Roberts and having him check the codes on an SD2 next week so should know for sure what it is and like you if it isn't the TB then it is either the PP or a wiring issue!

 

[Alecci]

Just removed the TB, the butterfly moves easily enough, but not even a hint of movement when in the car.

Contigo: My TB (if it indeed is the culprit) never worked, ever since it was mounted in the car I have not been able to rev the car at all, neither with my OEM PP and nor with the new contactless PP, not even after doing a throttle reset and/or clearing all the DTCs.

 

[Contigo]

Sounds ominous. I took mine down to Maserati Shed today after this recent CEL. Guess what? 1 hours drive and no CEL!!!!!! Unbelievable.

 

[bill]

Alecci

Just had a thought: when you first turn the ignition on but not start the car the butterfly should fully close and partially open at the idle position. It should also make a buzzing sound. Could you confirm it's doing this?

Phil,
That's good news! Long may it continue

 

[hodroyd]

Alecci, it sounds like you have an electrical issue that needs checking. Do you have any voltage at all at the TB..??

 

[Alecci]

Alecci

Just had a thought: when you first turn the ignition on but not start the car the butterfly should fully close and partially open at the idle position. It should also make a buzzing sound. Could you confirm it's doing this?

Wanted to check today, but just got home from a 12-hour work day so going to spend the rest of the evening with my ar$e firlmy planted in the sofa in front of the TV.

Alecci, it sounds like you have an electrical issue that needs checking. Do you have any voltage at all at the TB..??

I don't know, I'd love to check it up if I knew where to measure for this voltage. The connector to the TB? What outputs would I want to see there?

 

[hodroyd]

Just check for any voltage and see what it is, it sounds like you have nothing at all, I think it should fluctuate with the throttle pedal..??

 

[Contigo]

So the plot thickens as mine needs a new thermostat and on the 1 hour drive down to Mike it didn't throw the CEL which as I said is weird based on an around town drive it throws them consistently and frequently. The only difference on this recent drive was the car not getting up to temperature.

The SD2 readout gave the following.

INIEZIONE MARELLI 3200 GT - ERRORS
ERROR STATUS
REVOL.MANIF.PRESSURE INCONSISTENCY STORED
INVALID SIGNAL
ERROR COUNTER: 1
TURBOCOMPRESSOR PRESSURE INCONSIST. STORED
INVALID SIGNAL
ERROR COUNTER: 1

These are the same two that crop up after clearing the codes.

If when I pick the car up after service it has the CEL I think I will cry!

When will I be able to start actually enjoying this motor?