Nutcase pilots

[Phil the Brit]

How are we going to stop nutcase pilots from deliberately crashing planes. This is not the first time this has happened. We fixed the terrorist angle, now what about internal threat? On a 747 across the pond last week I was upstairs on the plane next to the pilot cabin and several times during the flight one pilot was left alone.

 

[Chrisbassett]

Simple, add "pilot" as a reason for inclusion on the terrorist watch list, restrict their movements and don't let them get on planes!

BennyD is already on his local list from scaring the neighbours with his exhaust at full throttle.

Seriously, I don't think there is an economically viable way to stop this entirely, it's all part of the acceptable risk of flying.

 

[BennyD]

The simple way is to put an extra pilot on the flight deck. Unfortunately, this won't get a lot of support from airlines as it will increase the pilot numbers required, which means increased overheads. If forced to do so, the cost is likely to be placed on the travelling public. I appreciate the concern of the travelling public regarding 'nutcase pilots', and whilst this is (potentially) the fifth case of pilot suicide that I can recall, it's still not all that common. Perhaps research is required into the causes of this phenomenon; physiological stresses from long hours, marital stresses from being away from home for long periods, psychological problems from long term sleep disruption/deprivation, all can cause the kind of depression which manifests itself in the donning of a granite overcoat. Why such people insist on their passengers joining them for their final flight, I don't know but something needs to be done and the problem needs to be properly researched. However, the increased scrutiny of 'sane' pilots this is likely to bring may cause an exodus from the industry which could, potentially, open the door for more 'nutcase pilots' to come in.

 

[drewf]

On some airlines, the SOP if one on the pilots leaves the cockpit is for them to be replaced with another crew member. That's virtually free to implement, as they are already on the aircraft, bored off their tits handing out coffee. I believe most major western airlines don't do this...

Increased psychological analysis of pilots will only result in the outcome Benny has just mentioned.

 

[BennyD]

We put a crew member on the flight deck when a pilot leaves only if the door lock mechanism has to be operated manually but, unfortunately, this can cause disruptions to the cabin service. In order to allow the pilots the freedom to 'come and go' in order to use the bathroom, exercise to avoid DVT, and relieve low level mental stimulation/boredom, there needs to be a dedicated 'third man'. I'm not sure there will be any unilateral action from the airlines quite yet but pressure will build to make them take some sort of action.

 

[CatmanV2]

The stat I heard (might be rubbish but sounds about right) is that trying to get rich by playing the national lottery is about as successful a strategy as trying to commit suicide by flying on commercial airlines.

Brisk googling shows this is probably not true, but some overall figures show it's close enough.

Risk of dying in a plane crash for *any* reason: 1 in 11,000,000
Odds of winning the jackpot: 1 in 14,000,000

Given those odds, I struggle to see the need of any additional measures.

C

 

[Fangio63]

For the vast majority of the time the Auto Pilot is on anyway.. and the Plane flies itself... presumably it's programmed not to prang it... So you only need a third person in the cabin when one or other of the pilots gets caught short when the auto pilot is off... And from what I gather it only needs to be off on take off or landing - and most of the time not even then... Seems pointless having a third person qualified to sit on their **** staring out the window...

One might hope as a passenger, that both Pilots were present and awake if conditions meant that the Auto Pilot could not cope..

My Pilot chum is still reeling after being told after 9/11 he could no longer carry his leatherman multi tool with him.... "In case he used it to take control of the cockpit ...."

 

[CatmanV2]

If the pilot is suicidal, he's not going to sit and stare at the autopilot thinking '****, if only that wasn't on...'

At a guess

C

 

[TridentTested]

Risk of dying in a plane crash for *any* reason: 1 in 11,000,000
Odds of winning the jackpot: 1 in 14,000,000

Given those odds, I struggle to see the need of any additional measures.

C

100%

It's the old "something must be done" mentality.


Meanwhile we kill 1,700 people with our cars every year, in the UK alone, and there is a great big collective shoulder shrug; sh!t happens, like the weather, seems to be the attitude.

 

[CatmanV2]

100%

It's the old "something must be done" mentality.


Meanwhile we kill 1,700 people with our cars every year, in the UK alone, and there is a great big collective shoulder shrug; sh!t happens, like the weather, seems to be the attitude.

Correct. For an entertaining couple of hours google perceived risk. Or just start with the conflation of probability and impact. Or even just confirmation bias. I could go on, but won't someone think of the children!??

C

 

[BennyD]

Personally, I welcome the debate. Any research which reduces the grinding effects of sleep deprivation gets my vote. A crew rest area would be very welcome, so that the guys with your lives in their hands are alert when it comes to putting your soft pink bodies on the ground in the same formation they were in when you took off. Sure, it probably wouldn't have helped in this latest event, being a day short-haul flight, but they also do a lot of night flights and the effect of sleep deprivation is cumulative and depressing.

 

[CatmanV2]

Happy to bow to experts in this and just about any other field

C

 

[outrun]

In "Airplane" there were 3 pilots but they all had the fish. Roger, Roger, check your clearance, Clarance, what's the vector, Victor.

So I definitely think that they can't all have the same meal.

As for what to do about it, look into why pilot's are under extreme pressure and choose to do this, look at the support aspects that airlines have in place to handle workplace stress and mental health issues and finally, not panic. It's still ridiculously unlikely and could easily be made far worse with the wrong intervention, no matter how good the intention.

 

[CatmanV2]

In "Airplane" there were 3 pilots but they all had the fish. Roger, Roger, check your clearance, Clarance, what's the vector, Victor.

I'm sorry:

We have to get this man to a Hospital
What is it?
A large building with patients, but that's not important right now!

C

 

[drewf]

It's the unnecessary apostrophes that are causing the stress.

I preferred the days when the cockpit door was open and the pilots could break the boredom by talking to kids etc, and no-one wanted to blow the **** things up. Went wrong for one Delta pilot though - he asked my kid (aged about 5) if she wanted to have a proper look round. She peered through the door, looked straight up at the chap and cut him dead - "No thank you - Daddy flies one that's better than yours"

 

[Wattie]

How are we going to stop nutcase pilots from deliberately crashing planes. This is not the first time this has happened. We fixed the terrorist angle, now what about internal threat? On a 747 across the pond last week I was upstairs on the plane next to the pilot cabin and several times during the flight one pilot was left alone.

Ensure that theres at least 2 in the cockpit at any one time......makes it harder to do for one nutter!
cheers Wattie

 

[drewf]

The old joke:

What is the ideal cockpit crew?
A pilot and a dog. The pilot is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to bite the pilot in case he tries to touch anything.

 

[Classico]

Acceptable risk, IMO, is the key point here.

To what extent and how much money can you throw at an issue such as this, that let's face it given the number of flights around the world daily, is extremely rare.

Possible solution may be to re-test pilots periodically not only on their flying as airlines currently do, but run psych tests at the same time as well.

An extra expense and no doubt one the airlines won't want to wear but could pass on.

Flying in this decade is so dirt cheap to previous eras. Personally would be happy to absorb the cost if it meant a safer experience.

No easy solution. Just suggestions.

 

[BennyD]

Ensure that theres at least 2 in the cockpit at any one time......makes it harder to do for one nutter!
cheers Wattie

Not always. Google FedEx flight 705 and have a read, it's absolutely astonishing.

 

[BennyD]

Acceptable risk, IMO, is the key point here.

To what extent and how much money can you throw at an issue such as this, that let's face it given the number of flights around th.e world daily, is extremely rare.

Possible solution may be to re-test pilots periodically not only on their flying as airlines currently do, but run psych tests at the same time as well.

An extra expense and no doubt one the airlines won't want to wear but could pass on.

Flying in this decade is so dirt cheap to previous eras. Personally would be happy to absorb the cost if it meant a safer experience.

No easy solution. Just suggestions.

Airline pilots are the most tested profession on the planet, yet more testing will be counter-productive. You would start to lose qualified pilots and you would deter wannabes from joining too. It's almost a catch 22; these days, you have to be mad to even contemplate being an airline pilot, and if you are mad you can't be one.