Nutcase pilots

[Phil the Brit]

Same could happen on any form of mass transport...

What is stopping a coach driver driving off a cliff, a train driver still doing 150 as they come into Paddington? You can only mitigate risk so far otherwise we would never leave the home, which bizarrely is one of the most dangerous places for accidents.

Well then why not have the computer on board a flight that stops pilots from doing abnormal things (like putting a plane into a rapid descent). The perameters would be set in the computer that the pilot can only do "normal" type activities. Same with the train scenario, have a section of track at the entrance to Paddington to quote Safranes example which stops trains going above a certain speed.

 

[conaero]

One thought, you take the ability to not lock the cabin door or have armed guard on board, you invite terrorists back in.

All I can see is that you remove the physical lock from the cabin door and replace with an electronic one that the cabin can lock from the cockpit and give ground crew the ability to override it. A separate air to ground coms unit will be at the back of the plane in the galley.

Ground crew could then also put the plane into a holding autopilot if it starts straying out of the norm, overriding the pilot.

It invites a hostage situation though.

 

[Chrisbassett]

Well then why not have the computer on board a flight that stops pilots from doing abnormal things (like putting a plane into a rapid descent). The perameters would be set in the computer that the pilot can only do "normal" type activities. Same with the train scenario, have a section of track at the entrance to Paddington to quote Safranes example which stops trains going above a certain speed.

But that could stop a pilot from saving a bad situation by doing something "abnormal" - the whole purpose for still having the human in the seat to be able to override the computer.

 

[CatmanV2]

I used to trust pilots then I met Benny and I have been nervous ever since

Curiously despite Benny's in life persona, I find the core of his character to be exactly that that I would expect from someone trained to deal with the un-expected.

Good man, frankly. Would be happier to hear his voice cursing French ATC over the 'accidentally' left on tannoy than many others

C

 

[BennyD]

Well then why not have the computer on board a flight that stops pilots from doing abnormal things (like putting a plane into a rapid descent). The perameters would be set in the computer that the pilot can only do "normal" type activities. Same with the train scenario, have a section of track at the entrance to Paddington to quote Safranes example which stops trains going above a certain speed.

So, what happens when there is an explosive decompression? The major concern is to get the aircraft down as quickly as possible to a breathable atmosphere. The on board passenger oxygen is limited so time is of the essence so 'Mincing' down will lead to deaths and long term injuries. All that these 'good ideas' will achieve is to make professional pilots feel like pariahs. Dunblane and Hungerford were executed by a 'man in the street' but, personally, I don't treat every 'man in the street' like he is a potential mass murderer.

 

[BennyD]

Curiously despite Benny's in life persona, I find the core of his character to be exactly that that I would expect from someone trained to deal with the un-expected.

Good man, frankly. Would be happier to hear his voice cursing French ATC over the 'accidentally' left on tannoy than many others

Cheers C! I'll take the compliment however back-handed it started!

 

[CatmanV2]

Cheers C! I'll take the compliment however back-handed it started!

As such it was intended I was merely trying to accentuate the differences between the 'off duty' persona and the 'on duty' one that many of us maintain. It may not even be that persona is a fair word.
For example Mrs Catman says she can see instantly when I go into management mode. There's a whole different set of body language, phrasing and demeanour that comes into the fore. That I would call a persona. It's, to an extent, an act.

When I step on the gym floor, however, something very different happens. That is not a persona, but a set of instilled behavioural responses that are closer to reflex than any considered action <> reaction. I would say that this is far closer to what just about any professional does. You see similar in pilots, soldiers, surgeons, police, SWAT, racing drivers. People who's jobs actually do involve genuine life or death risks.
A lot of what you're saying feels like bleed through from that aspect of you to SM forum character and thus, I feel confident.

Ziz brings zis weeks session to a closs, Herr Benny. Next veek ve vill discuss your issues around exhaust ant the symbolism zere in, ja?

C

 

[Phil H]

In the good old days of aviation you might have had a captain, co-pilot, navigator, and flight engineer. By and large the nav and eng have gone and have effectively been been replaced by technology, so I don't really see any prospect of putting more bums back on flight decks in any guise.

It's easy to denounce computers but the reality is that without them Heathrow would close; ATC would no longer function, and neither would the aircraft they want to control. If your software driven glass screens pack up on the flight deck you might just curse a little, and that's before we get into the realms of autopilots, and aircraft health monitoring systems which optimise the maintenance schedules pilots depend on. Like it or not technology is here to stay and to advance.

Can you remove flight crew completely?
Yes of course you can.
Is there risk in doing so?
Yes.
Is there risk in not doing so?
Yes, as we have just seen.
Risk is a balancing act; you just have to hope the money men don't screw it up.

PH

 

[BennyD]

Eventually they will, because there is money involved.

 

[safrane]

In the good old days of aviation you might have had a captain, co-pilot, navigator, and flight engineer. By and large the nav and eng have gone and have effectively been been replaced by technology, so I don't really see any prospect of putting more bums back on flight decks.

PH

And that is why we have the less 'classy' part of society going to the likes of Magaloufe, Benidorm, Bodrum etc and showing what a quality nation we really are...back in the 50-60's you just had the rich flying and the rest of us went to Blackpool and froze our nuts off

 

[Felonious Crud]

Interesting thread. I fly quite a lot and have never felt the need to worry about emotionally-bolloxed or suicidial pilots or cabin crew. I've been surprised by aborted landings due to something else already being on the runway, stuck landing gear and clear-air turbulence that would give any roller-coaster a run for its money, but the emotional stability of pilots has never concerned me at all. Some tw@t texting and driving at the same time is, on balance, a far greater threat to my longevity, I should imagine.

 

[BennyD]

A voice of reason in a mad world.

 

[safrane]

Indeed...all hail Adam!

 

[CatmanV2]

A voice of reason in a mad world.

Shout him down! Think of the children! Create a petition! Reason must be destroyed!

Sorry, got carried away for a moment there!

C

 

[dem maser]

Not always. Google FedEx flight 705 and have a read, it's absolutely astonishing.

I did, that is worrying

 

[dem maser]

im scared of flying and all this doesn't help

 

[Felonious Crud]

That's ok Dem. Lots of people are terrified of estate agents.

 

[BennyD]

I did, that is worrying

It should be reassuring Dem. It demonstrates the innate survival instinct in every pilot I have ever worked with. The present situation is just another case of a mad German bringing suspicion and chaos to Europe.

 

[Phil the Brit]

What do we get told at Airports all over the world?
We get told that we have to lose the water, take off the belt, take off the shoes, take the laptop out of it's bag etc, etc. All of this and much more is for our own safety we are told.
No inconvenience or cost is too much to save 150 innocent lives.

Edit; offensive passage removed.

 

[BennyD]

Sorry, but I'm not taking it as such. That is very insulting and unworthy. Please remove the offending passage or I will do it for you.

Edit; As you didn't have the decency to do it yourself, I did it for you.