The whinging bitches politics poo-bin thread

[mowlas]

Playing devils advocate here. If a banker previously had his bonus capped at say 500k. The government get circa 250k in tax.
Now if the same banker now gets his bonus uncapped and gets a 5m bonus then the government gets 2.5m in tax.

Might not look good to the average man in the street but it means the government earn more tax. Which helps everyone (in theory).

Fair point but many of these bonuses will be funnelled into ‘tax efficient” schemes so the tax haul may not be that significant.

On the downside, the reasons for these caps was to help minimise the chances of another banking system crash… the costs of which make Covid look like a bargain at £1.162 trillion in 2008/9.

Come to think of it, can that all please be paid back before a single bonus is paid?

 

[DLax69]

Fair point but many of these bonuses will be funnelled into ‘tax efficient” schemes so the tax haul may not be that significant.

On the downside, the reasons for these caps was to help minimise the chances of another banking system crash… the costs of which make Covid look like a bargain at £1.162 trillion in 2008/9.

Come to think of it, can that all please be paid back before a single bonus is paid?

Spot on...only have to look at the tax regime here to see how it really works. Generally I think it's called "trickle down" because that sounds nicer than "Jeff Bezos is peeing on you" ...

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

Fair point but many of these bonuses will be funnelled into ‘tax efficient” schemes so the tax haul may not be that significant.
On the downside, the reasons for these caps was to help minimise the chances of another banking system crash… the costs of which make Covid look like a bargain at £1.162 trillion in 2008/9.
Come to think of it, can that all please be paid back before a single bonus is paid?

Kwasi Kwarteng is simply planning ahead. For when he leaves government and accepts his city directorships.

 

[mowlas]

Kwasi Kwarteng is simply planning ahead. For when he leaves government and accepts his city directorships.

That thought had crossed my mind too. It would not surprise me at all. He may well be thinking that the chances of the Tories remaining in power after the next GE are so low that he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

That thought had crossed my mind too. It would not surprise me at all. He may well be thinking that the chances of the Tories remaining in power after the next GE are so low that he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

And he's betting that the sheeple will forget wot he gone dun when he woz Chancellor. Ennit.

 

[philw696]

 

[Felonious Crud]

In what way does Liz Truss still work for Shell? Sorry if I'm being a bit dim.

 

[CatmanV2]

In what way does Liz Truss still work for Shell? Sorry if I'm being a bit dim.

Oh she must do. All politicians are on the take. Didn't you know?

C

 

[philw696]

She took a £100,000 for her campaign to be PM.

 

[daverichardson]

She will not do a 'windfall tax' on them (and other energy companies)

 

[DLax69]

She will not do a 'windfall tax' on them (and other energy companies)

I do not understand how any politicians can be allowed to own stock in anything...but i'm thick like that.

 

[damnawivdaplan]

when ever it's mentioned the big oil companies say that they will cut back investment if they do it, but they must also be sending cash into the mp bank account sorry I mean lobbying them not to bring it through

 

[philw696]

 

[Felonious Crud]

She took a £100,000 for her campaign to be PM.

Do you have a link? I could only find this and unless I missed it there's no mention of Shell: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-s-new-prime-minister?leadSource=uverify wall

 

[mowlas]

Do you have a link? I could only find this and unless I missed it there's no mention of Shell: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-09/the-city-donors-who-backed-britain-s-new-prime-minister?leadSource=uverify wall

Here’s what I could find in terms of donations from energy company linked parties…

Liz Truss reveals campaign donation of £100,000 from wife of ex-BP executive | Liz Truss | The Guardian

Contributions were revealed minutes before the new PM announced details of her plan to tackle rising energy bills

amp.theguardian.com

In addition she received £30,000 from pro-fracking parties.

Liz Truss Campaign Funded by Donors From Pro-Fracking Groups and Climate Denier

The leadership campaign of the UK’s new prime minister was partly funded by individuals involved in influential pro-fracking think tanks and a former Brexit Party MEP who has called climate change a “myth” and a “religion”. Two days after taking office, Truss gave the green light for new...

www.desmog.com

 

[CatmanV2]

Donations to campaign funds <> 'working for us'. There are, undoubtedly, many parties funding many election campaigns, because, well, it's in their interests. Does Liz benefit personally? Probably. Is she 'working for Shell'? Well, people are the judge of that. That judgment will be personal, biased (because it always is) and seldom accurate (IMHO).


C

 

[mowlas]

Donations to campaign funds <> 'working for us'. There are, undoubtedly, many parties funding many election campaigns, because, well, it's in their interests. Does Liz benefit personally? Probably. Is she 'working for Shell'? Well, people are the judge of that. That judgment will be personal, biased (because it always is) and seldom accurate (IMHO).


C

Interesting to look it at another way: “what do people think is appropriate and fair?”

From the attached, overall 74% of the public believe a windfall tax on the excess profits of energy producers should be included as part of paying for the price cap. Significantly, 84% of 2019 Conservative voters support a windfall tax, even higher than the 74% of 2019 Labour voters who support a windfall tax.

https://www.survation.com/public-and-conservative-voters-believe-windfall-tax-on-energy-producers-should-form-a-part-of-paying-for-energy-bill-cap/

 

[CatmanV2]

Interesting to look it at another way: “what do people think is appropriate and fair?”

From the attached, overall 74% of the public believe a windfall tax on the excess profits of energy producers should be included as part of paying for the price cap. Significantly, 84% of 2019 Conservative voters support a windfall tax, even higher than the 74% of 2019 Labour voters who support a windfall tax.

https://www.survation.com/public-and-conservative-voters-believe-windfall-tax-on-energy-producers-should-form-a-part-of-paying-for-energy-bill-cap/

For sure. OTOH 99% of the public don't actually understand how a windfall tax could be applied and 99+% don't get that it probably can't be applied because most of the profits of the major energy companies (i.e. not Octopus and so on) don't actually make profit under uk jurisprudence and can't be taxed by the UK......

As ever people want, and fixate to simple answers, very few of which are applicable / helpful / usable in the real world,

C

 

[mowlas]

For sure. OTOH 99% of the public don't actually understand how a windfall tax could be applied and 99+% don't get that it probably can't be applied because most of the profits of the major energy companies (i.e. not Octopus and so on) don't actually make profit under uk jurisprudence and can't be taxed by the UK......

As ever people want, and fixate to simple answers, very few of which are applicable / helpful / usable in the real world,

C

Politicians potentially have a worse track record on fixating on simple answers, or answers that are pragmatic, either in terms of reelection prospects or fixated ideologies. In this case, the survey question was quite specific “excess profits of energy producers”. I think most people would understand that.

I shared the above information based on the question of the thread as it stands currently, which seems to be about who’s interests Truss is seeming to serve.

However, I am personally not interested in what motivations Truss has, but whether she is making good, sustainable policy decisions.

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

Every system of government on the planet is completely corrupt.
If you think anything else, you're a fool.
If you can ignore all of the examples of corruption in public life, that occur in every society you're a fool.
If you ask me for examples, because you can't think of any yourself. Guess what? You're a fool.
How many times each year do House of Commons Committees highlight corruption, ineptitude,
egregious waste by government and government contractors and does anyone ever go to jail?
Until recently. Almost never. Now. Slightly more. Maybe. But given the level of incompetence
and corruption in those agencies who are supposed to investigate and collate prosecution files,
I hold out no hope that the system will improve.
I know that there are some MPs and Lords, as well as others who serve honestly and diligently.
But, its a tiny minority. In any conversation about public servants in general, the underlying assumption
must be that they are corrupt. And go from there.
Rant over. As its not quite dawn yet.